More postage!

[kyrasantae]

[09:00:03 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän [EΣΨ] The Reluctant Engineer — Engg Week is over, amen!: only if you promise to a) never drink, and b) never to endorse engg week again
[09:00:28 PM] Щîł£ Ĭ άΜ [102 lab, 131 hw, 101 hw, 102 hw, 105 questions, 131 hw2]done engg 101, 100 lab: never drink is impossible....cuz even u drink...LOL
[09:02:40 PM] William: i didnt really do much for engg week this year....
[09:02:44 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: too bad
[09:02:54 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: you endorsed it in words
[09:03:27 PM] William: well....its not that bad is it?
[09:03:33 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: yes it is
[09:05:08 PM] William: what is sooo bad about engg
[09:05:31 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: you won't understand
[09:06:17 PM] William: even some profs think it was teh best time in their young time.....
[09:06:35 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: for example, the crossing of the line between pride and arrogance
[09:07:07 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: another: veiled male chauvinism
[09:08:04 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: in this case
[09:08:15 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i'm referring to the sexually oriented jokes
[09:08:48 PM] William: well..............its hard not to find that elsewhere tho
[09:09:34 PM] William: pride or arrogance.....welllll................pride is good nontheless....arrogance....i dont see any engineers being arrogance towards other engineers
[09:09:43 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: not arrogant towards others
[09:09:48 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: arrogant as a species
[09:11:08 PM] William: well.........theres nothing really wrong with it.....we paid sooooo much effort for what we have....
[09:11:36 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: doesn't mean we think that we're better than anyone else in the world and can do anything we want and get away with it
[09:11:53 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: we are rightly scorned by the other faculties
[09:12:00 PM] William: well.......we arent getting away from anything
[09:12:05 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: no
[09:12:08 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: getting away WITH anything
[09:12:18 PM] William: thats their freedom to do so
[09:12:24 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: officially sanctioned to pull pranks
[09:12:54 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: yes but when practically all of the other facs absolutely HATE our arrogance, and they use that word, don't you think we need to take a look at that seriously?
[09:14:20 PM] William: well......maybe at theh same time u should be thinking.....its a tradition created becuz we are just different from the others.....and try to stand on the side u are on
[09:14:28 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: no
[09:14:30 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i will not stand
[09:15:27 PM] William: arrogance is the word used by others who cant achieve what we can do....they are jealous of what we are able to do....
[09:15:39 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: we live in a society where equality is valued; not that of fifty years ago when there was still many inequalities, including but not exclusively sexism and racism. it is no longer appropriate to demonstrate or imply supremacy over others.
[09:16:43 PM] William: personally, i dont think sexism and racism is a problem right now.....they are extreme rare case to have
[09:16:47 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: exactly
[09:16:55 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: they are no longer a problem because we don't want inequality
[09:17:46 PM] William: but the problem is do we have the inequality ourselves or do we have the problem given by the others....
[09:17:58 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: we create it for ourselves by declaring supremacy
[09:18:40 PM] William: i think it is a stereotype put on us by others
[09:18:54 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and perpetuated by our own kind!
[09:19:33 PM] William: k....even if it is....i dont think it really matters
[09:19:41 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: yes it does
[09:20:25 PM] William: me for an example....i dont care what non-engineers say about us........i am myself
[09:20:39 PM] Forgottenlord has been added to the conversation.
[09:20:49 PM] William: it doesnt matter what other ppl think....its what u think that matters
[09:21:46 PM] William: i really dono how we got into this convo .....
[09:21:48 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: as much as we tell ourselves that we should not be affected by what others say, we are. always.
[09:21:56 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: you asked me what was wrong with engg week
[09:22:45 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: you can be who you want to be but ultimately you will be judged as the person next to you
[09:23:13 PM] William: but they dont know u.....
[09:23:27 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and that is WHY they will judge you by the stereotype
[09:23:27 PM] William: u are the toughest judge of urself
[09:23:34 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: not that kind of judging
[09:24:04 PM] Forgottenlord: "we paid sooooo much effort for what we have": A) why is it that the level of work we do can dictate how we treat and respect others. There is not excuse that allows us to hold and display our pride in such a manner that it becomes arrogance
[09:24:28 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and btw Will that's a 2nd year SoftE speaking :P
[09:25:10 PM] Forgottenlord: B) it is debatable whether we can truly claim we do more or jump through more hoops than those that are not in engineering. I'd say because we are able to enter Engineering straight from HS, compete against our own faculty the entire way AND have everything practically decided for us, we have very little to worry about in terms of planning
[09:25:35 PM] Forgottenlord: our concern is truly sitting behind the books - and even then, it is debatable whether we truly do more or whether we do as much but we do it more often
[09:26:34 PM] William: i didnt say pride is arrogance.....but it is good for us to have pride
[09:26:47 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: pride becomes arrogance
[09:26:53 PM] Forgottenlord: an excess of pride is arrogance
[09:27:01 PM] Forgottenlord: I believe by actual definition
[09:27:18 PM] William: that is just personal opinion
[09:27:29 PM] Forgottenlord: "arrogance is the word used by others who cant achieve what we can do....they are jealous of what we are able to do...." A) Why does that give us the right to flaunt it in their face. Do you know who did that to us in school? The bullies and the jocks. Back then, it was sports and strength. Why do we have the right now that the area of advantage is for us to return the favor?
[09:27:49 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: but yeah if you're proud to the point where the other facs are annoyed at you, it's arrogance
[09:28:39 PM] Forgottenlord: B) it is a mistake to assume that they are jealous. There is a percentage that are jealous and wish they could do what we're doing, but a vast percentage of our school mates didn't enter Engineering not because they couldn't, but because they didn't want to
[09:29:20 PM] William: well......if u are in engg....and if u think u are facing the stereotype from otehr faculty....then u have to deal with it
[09:29:32 PM] Forgottenlord: whether it be because they wanted to go into one of the (what I like to call) "big 5" (Pharmacy, Medicine, Nursing, Law and Business) or because their interests were truly elsewhere, the majority of them MADE that conscious choice
[09:29:34 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: "arrogance: offensively exaggerating one's own importance" "pride: 1. conceit, 2. justifiable self-respect, 3. elation over an act or posession, 4. haughty behaviour, disdain, 5. ostentatious display"
[09:30:49 PM] Forgottenlord: I may have to live with the stereotype - but that doesn't mean I don't oppose it
[09:30:56 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: but it's not just going to be in school when you'll be faced with the stereotype - it's outside in the world too - do you want to be talking to someone you just met at a wedding banquet and thinking of you negatively because you're an engineer?
[09:31:06 PM] Forgottenlord: I dislike the stereotype - but I love the work
[09:31:42 PM] William: well......personally....i really dont see any of these stereotype myself.....
[09:32:10 PM] William: maybe just maybe....u are hanging out with the wrong people all teh time....
[09:32:14 PM] Forgottenlord: how many non-engineers do you hang out with?
[09:32:19 PM] William: many
[09:32:34 PM] William: in fact i know more non-engineers than engineers prolly
[09:32:38 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: stereotypes have basis in fact. if there were no one who was actually like that, the stereotype would not have developed.
[09:32:55 PM] Forgottenlord: I study at St Joes - there's 2 Physics, one Ag, a few Ed and a heck of a lot of arts
[09:33:17 PM] William: well...of course arts ppl would hate engineers
[09:33:25 PM] William: just as much as i hate for arts...
[09:33:31 PM] William: well...u might ask why
[09:33:32 PM] Forgottenlord: it was one of the physics people that put our fac down
[09:33:36 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: most of the ppl in my choir are Ed or Arts
[09:34:06 PM] William: but its simply i cant do art.....i develop this "hate" for teh faculty...
[09:34:19 PM] William: same thing may apply for them...
[09:34:30 PM] Forgottenlord: it's not the arts people that I have problems with
[09:34:46 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and guess what, I can do art
[09:34:47 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: :P
[09:34:56 PM] William: well...good for u
[09:35:08 PM] Forgottenlord: (I can't do arts)
[09:35:10 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: does that mean you hate me for not going to arts, where my attitude better "belongs"?
[09:35:26 PM] Forgottenlord: they've got their opinions - but it's usually along the respect line. However, not a single one of them disagrees with the statement that Engineers on the whole are arrogant
[09:36:18 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and this is all over the world :P
[09:36:26 PM] William: well....depends on what type of person u are....i dont have things against the fac.
[09:36:45 PM] William: if i have stuff....its only against a person or a subject itself
[09:36:50 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i don't have anything against the fac either, it's against the people IN the fac
[09:37:30 PM] William: weell.......theres not much i can do about it....
[09:38:26 PM] Forgottenlord: every single person I meet that says they cannot do anything about it, I want to hit them
[09:38:34 PM] Forgottenlord: it's one thing to say you won't do anything about it
[09:38:37 PM] Forgottenlord: I can respect that
[09:38:37 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i want to stab them :P
[09:38:46 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and yea Will doesn't know about my new knife
[09:39:09 PM] Forgottenlord: but to say you can't do anything about it - you're telling a pretty fucking bold lie
[09:39:31 PM] Forgottenlord: yeah - be afraid - be very very afraid
[09:39:53 PM] William: whatever.....its ur believe....
[09:40:20 PM] William: u can either go along with it or not
[09:40:38 PM] Forgottenlord: TBH - I'm not anti-Engg week - I'm anti-BS - that's why I wanted in on this convo
[09:40:54 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: engineers not being arrogant is BS :P
[09:40:58 PM] Forgottenlord: exactly
[09:41:17 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: that i get urges to stab people is NOT BS
[09:41:37 PM] William: well.....maybe thats teh majority of the ppl right now.....
[09:41:47 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: that has always been
[09:41:57 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: because effort has not been made to change it
[09:42:06 PM] William: so what.....tell them to change it
[09:42:21 PM] Forgottenlord: HAHAHAHA
[09:42:23 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: tell who
[09:42:29 PM] Forgottenlord: If what I hear is true - she tried and was told to fuck off
[09:42:30 PM] William: i dono...u tell me
[09:42:38 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: you are one of them!
[09:42:51 PM] William: of course....
[09:43:14 PM] William: i wont tell u to fuck off...cuz its not a nice thing to say to a girl...
[09:43:18 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: you are one who needs to make that effort to change it - such things are not done alone
[09:43:40 PM] Forgottenlord: so obviously, going for the neck isn't going to work - got to go after the individuals and get a voice going rather than a whistle
[09:43:53 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: yea but you were there when Michel basically told me that and that he "won't let [my] beliefs interfere with the way" he wanted engg week to be
[09:44:10 PM] Forgottenlord: to be an asshole: which gets more attention - a lot of waves or a big tsunami

Comments

This guy is ridiculous

[(Anonymous)]

From DarkFlash:

"William: arrogance is the word used by others who cant achieve what we can do....they are jealous of what we are able to do....."

This guy is unbelievable. He seems to think Engineers are the pinnacle of society and the reason the world turns. That said though, I will point out that nobody is jealous of what you can do... consider it... Engineers don't really specialize in anything. They can do a bit of math, a bit of chemistry, some physics, they even have some business and legal knowledge too... yet in any one field, they can easily be outdone by someone else. A Math Major will destory any engineer with their math. Same thing with physics. In the end, it seems engineers are a bunch of people who deliberately choose not to specialize in any one discipline. Now, which warrants more pride, doing a few things to an acceptable level or doing one thing really well? Answers will vary. I know where I stand.

Is it just me, or would engineering be better dealt with if we had experts in every field come together to work towards a common goal instead of one person trying to hash out everything on their own? Where is your sense of teamwork? And where does all this superfluous pride come from?

PS: the Faculty of Engineering really does admit anyone. The guy I know who had a 62% average in high school is proof. He got a 1000$ scholarship too. You're not proving anything by being an engineer.

(sorry Mildred, I realize I've just shred your chosen discipline to pieces... there are some good things about Eng too... I just can't think of any right now :p )

Re: This guy is ridiculous

[kyrasantae.livejournal.com]

No worries, that's really not what I was trying to get at at all. I was trying to explain why many people feel that we are over-arrogant, and that it is unjustified of us to loudly proclaim this so-called "supremacy" of our kind...

P.S. Engineers work in teams too, I'm not exactly sure but I think that we have to learn all this blah is because we're supposed to be able to relate the computer programming to the physics or the economics to the math in the context of a particular project, while scientists who specialize won't find it as easy to have to pick up knowledge of another subject on the spot just so they can fit the project together, I dunno.

[krikkert.livejournal.com]

Well, seeing as a Physics major will have to pick up a lot of math and most likely does a little chemistry(I've got several friends doing their physics bachelors with side dishes of math and chemistry), don't say it like you're so sure.

As far as I have seen, engineers are the least willing to cooperate. And the first to throw one of their own to the wolves(unless someone else can be sacrificed). But of course, that's just my view.

[kyrasantae.livejournal.com]

Least willing to cooperate indeed. Also least willing to compromise, as already quite evident by the strong opposition towards my stance.

As it stands, though, I chose to study this because a) I'm interested in strictly applying science to real life (keeping theoretical stuff to a minimum), and b) there's some family honour involved, else I would have taken a major in chemistry.

[forgottenlord.livejournal.com]

What Uni do you go to? I've heard there are some really cut-throat universities out there - ours is fairly easy in comparison. I've heard of mass groups of total strangers just doing last minute answer comparisons at the drop box out here - and I certainly have not seen an issue of either lack of cooperation or backstabbing - might be partly because I'm in a really good study group though.

[krikkert.livejournal.com]

Heh. I don't attend a Canadian university, due to not being a Canadian.

Re: This guy is ridiculous

[forgottenlord.livejournal.com]

actually - I'll be the one who takes offense to that - though I admit, I'm one of the more arrogant Engineers out there (not because I'm an Engineer though, because as a person I'm arrogant).

A math/physics/chemistry major of course can take their specialty and know it to the extreme details - and it is because of that that they can expand on it and further our knowledge at a theoretical level. However, the chemists, mathematicians and physicists only have a small component of their lives where they take this theory and apply it in such a manner that it helps the average man.

At the theoretical level of how society is supposed to run (in practice, Engineers are much more useless than what is shown here and the others are much more useful), an Engineer is supposed to take this theory, simplify it and apply it in a practical manner.

I would disagree that it would be better for the experts to come together. When you need very specialized knowledge on something, you call in a specialist. However, until then, someone who has a bit less knowledge on three different topics can do the job of three specialists - provided he has the manual capabilities to do that work. If you're trying to fix your computer, do you turn to tech support right away? If you have a mediocre level of knowledge, you'd probably do it yourself.

I do not know where the actual source of the pride comes from. I suspect it is in the value that society has effectively held for Engineers because they are applicators rather than theorists - but I cannot be certain and that may in itself be a biased opinion there.

It doesn't matter what your overall average is - just the 5 courses Eng looks at - Calculus, Algebra, Chem, Phys and English. If you have >80% across these - you're in. I don't know what the actual data for this particular case is though.

Re: This guy is ridiculous

[forgottenlord.livejournal.com]

I forgot to add - you can argue whether it is better to be a specialist or a jack of all trades until you're blue in the face. The truth is that both are necessary for society - it's your preference on what you'd rather be.

Repost

[kyrasantae.livejournal.com]

I had to delete the original because it contained too much of my real name, and also that it was offensive to me, but forgottenlord wanted to say something to it, so here it is, back.

William
I am ridiculous....well...thank you for the comment... apparently u haven't known me in person....and i don't think thats a good start either
first of all, I had no intention to engage in that conversation with [kyrasantae]. I was just replying as [kyrasantae] went along the way.
second of all, if it was you, [kyrasantae], who make me took the stance at that time, becuz u decided the stance u are taking, so I was trying to explain the word "arrogance" to you. there is no point for u guys to exploit a single sentence into a huge deal
thirdly, I never thought engineers are better than others, but I just have the pride myself, I have the pride for me being who I am, u might call me an egocentric, but I don't care what you think. people have the rights for their believes.
fourthly, i said, theres not much i can do...not I cant do anything....but yah....ur threats doesnt really appeal for other people to do change anything for you guys just becuz your lil knive threats
last of all, as a suggestion, if you guys really really wanna change something for the big picture, u guys can find other ways, doesnt need to make others to feel u guys are the weird outcasts (I know u guys are gonna exploit that sentence, but thats what u guys are portraiting for urself right now)
P.S. I can be arrogant as u guys might say, but all I do is that I take pride for every step I take~I am proud of myself, proud of who I am, proud of what I am doing...and it is only ur opinion if I am arrogant or not, and it is not gonna change for who I am

Re: Repost

[kyrasantae.livejournal.com]

Repost to move from deleted thread

William
PS2: I just thought it was funny that you guys actually have the time to read someone else's conversation. If it wasn't my other friend who saw it on this site I would not have known that you guys are boring enough to exploit the stance that I may or may not stand for. Just thought it was funny that I wasted 30 minutes reading and writing message for this site.

Re: Repost

[forgottenlord.livejournal.com]

Will - I wanted this reposted because you did have some very valid points in here
1) I should note that when I originally got involved with the conversation - I had not seen the fact that kyrasantae had been the initiator - "[09:05:08 PM] William: what is sooo bad about engg" was the first line I saw. Regardless, I was annoyed by the argument that had evolved from it and I felt there was an arrogance in your defense of your position - and I think Darkflash picked up on it too. It did seem like you held the arrogance that is so heavilly picked up by those outside our faculty - and even many within it
2) What you thought was not the same as what you wrote. Whether you thought it or not, your statements suggest that you did think Engineers were better (though looking back, it looks like you may have misworded one of the statements in question to make it seem more arrogant than you intended)
3) Your individual assistance may be fairly small in the end, but you would still have a bigger impact than many who contributed because of the position of power that you hold (I don't know precisely what your position is, but I hear you have one). If you have a lot of small voices, they can overtake the big one.

I don't intend to make this seem like I think kyrasantae's position is popular or held by a true majority (it might be, but I really don't know), but a silent majority will always be crushed by a very vocal minority. Whether they are a minority or a majority, the partiers get a lot more face time than those that oppose them.
4) I like the comment about weird outcasts - I think at times it does seem like that's the voice being portrayed - the crushed underdog, outcasted by society and not given a second glance by the few who care. It is, in itself, a mixture of extraordinary arrogance and despair. I know where the source of it comes from; it is a shame it does exist and I worry about it regularly.
5) I'm well aware that this is not the only way to approach it. Various attempts have been made at others but nothing has actually materialized into something effective. I think it is nervousness and concern - perhaps fear - that prevents these projects from being pushed to the point that they could be effective. Until the point has come where Kyrasantae can take it to the next step, the only thing she really has to work with is one-on-one discussions with people - whether her technique is guilt trip, underdog or something else. It is not effective (though I believe it could be much more effective than it has so far been), but it is what she works with.

Re: Repost

[(Anonymous)]

William
I admit that I think Engineering is better than other faculties, thus, I chose to be an engineer. There is nothing wrong with having a sense of pride for whatever I love. However, it doesn't necessarily translate into arrogance itself. "Arrogance" is a subjective opionion hold by others when judging another. To you someone maybe arrogant, and it may be another story to the others. To you guys, engineers might be portraited as arrogant ones, but to others the world is not as bad as you guys think it is. Why care about what other people think for who your are instead of knowing what yourself actually is? Does other people's prejudice really affect you? Even if it does, you know who you are, and why bother to argue for some statements that you feel is non-sense. You can choose whether you want to live as a happy engineer who doesn't really give a damn to those stereotypes because you know they are not true for you just like myself (for example drinking and partying), or live miserably and thinking about the stereotypes for engineers and starting think "do I belong to these people".
P.S. Efforts are appreciated. However, just like I said, I don't really care if there is stereotype or not. Because, personally, so far, I am not living with those stereotypes (I don't drink, I don't party, I am not arrogance until you guys said so and it was cool with me cause you guys have different opinion from other people), and I am not being affected by other people's prejudice. I just try to live on my own!

Re: Repost

[forgottenlord.livejournal.com]

I wasn't going to respond to this but I thought of something I felt should be mentioned. I'm probably being an idiot for doing so.

Before you step foot into someone's office, an assumption has already been made about you. The assumption is based upon where you originated from and what you are a part of. Assumptions are made about you based upon the fact that you are an Engineer, you went to the U of A, what your marks were like from there, perhaps a W in a course might be noticed, former places of employment, club involvment, etc. These assumptions are based upon stereotypes that the person has developed for people of that nature, and it will effect you in the future. Perhaps it won't greatly change your friendships, but they are not the only ones that you must deal with. Employers and coworkers will have their own opinions on people with your past before they know you, and the probability of you being hired and the respect given to you once you're hired (both by people above and below you on the food chain) is dependant on these stereotypes. It won't be until people know you that their stereotypes have changed - and hopefully, it will not have effected the work that you could do up until that point.

It is VERY difficult to change the stereotypes, but it is not impossible. However, they are a much more long term goal than they are a short term one. Stereotypes are developed on the scale of generations rather than months or years. However, they effect us nontheless.

[kyrasantae.livejournal.com]

Another repost, as much as I hate lazy type-editing.

well you people need to freaking open your mind, arragance comes from stupidity, and just from reading this i can tell all of you are stupid, William is right you can't do nothing about what other people say or do its their problem if they are aso freaking narrow mind...now if you dont like soemthing you are doing freaking hell no one is making you saty in it, if you dont like being in the eng fac, then freaking get out do something you like...pride is something you need to get you thruogh life, if you have non you going to fail, but i do agree that to much pride cant be good and can lead to arragance, but havent you noticed that the pride-full peopel are the stupid assholes in this world HMM?!?!?! Personally I am not in eng, I am an artist, and Will jsut happen to be one of my closest friends and he is in eng, hell even my bro in eng, people said that eng are peoplethat only know a bit of math, physics and chem...well i desagree, before you talk, you should see the hell these people go through....bunch of retards...

[forgottenlord.livejournal.com]

A nice bundle of mass confusion here.

Dear sir;
If you care to insult the intellegence of others, please attempt to not insult yourself in the process. If you appear to be even less intelligent than those that you criticize, you will rarely be taken seriously.

That said, I think I should attempt to respond where I can.

Arrogance is defined as overbearing pride. It does not come from stupidity - but may be displayed because of stupidity or lack of class. To claim that a lot of people that flip burgers for a career are arrogant would be rather foolish - but a number of them would be considered stupid.

I agree you can do nothing about what other people say, but you can give them your opinion and argue it. Perhaps you won't get anywhere, perhaps you need something to jar them awake so they'll start listening to you, perhaps you can convince them in your third discussion. That is the art of debating. If you are successful, you will change their minds and what they say. If you are not, you have given your opinion on the matter - it may open their eyes to a new opinion or perhaps just make them aware that one more person believes in this. I think last night, William had his eyes openned to the opinion that Engineers on the whole are arrogant, but I do not believe his opinion has been changed. One mistake that some people make, though, is eventually you get two polarized opinions, and arguing it further just polarizes the two opinions even more.

Narrow mindedness is only combatted by openning their eyes. If they refuse to, that's a shame, but at least you tried.

"now if you dont like soemthing you are doing freaking hell no one is making you saty in it," - NO bloody clue what you were trying to say there

"if you dont like being in the eng fac, then freaking get out do something you like" - did you even read the conversation? That was addressed in there

"pride is something you need to get you thruogh life, if you have non you going to fail, but i do agree that to much pride cant be good and can lead to arragance" - agree entirely

"but havent you noticed that the pride-full peopel are the stupid assholes in this world HMM?!?!?!" - It's hard to call them stupid - we notice them because they are in such important positions in the world. See previous comment on stupidity vs arrogance