(no subject)

[kyrasantae]

[06:08:30 PM] Medevo: [creepy] mike says: why the hell are you in engineering if you dont like engg week
[06:09:27 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: "Never let your lifestyle dictate what you study." - Nov. 13 '04
[06:09:56 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i'm here because this is what i want to learn
[06:10:14 PM] Medevo: why are u in engineering if u hate everything which embodies an engineer is the question
[06:10:31 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i hate everything which embodies an engineering STUDENT
[06:10:58 PM] Medevo: and when your a P. ENG and have to work with these people?
[06:14:34 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: why do you have to make the end of my week worse when it's already bad enough/
[06:15:05 PM] Medevo: because my weeks sucks too, and that name invites a discussion and critisism [That would be the part that says "Engg Week - A Tradition Worth Fighting Against"]
[06:15:12 PM] Forgottenlord: lol
[06:15:15 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: my week sucks more than yours
[06:15:20 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and scott knows it
[06:17:09 PM] Medevo: i am at school, in a computer lab, doing a physics assignment, and have been working on it for like 2 hours, and the entire assignment is suspost to take 1.5 hours and im not half done
[06:17:14 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: :/
[06:17:52 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: do you how many times i've found myself walking past ppl doing engg week events in Quad and wanting to yell something at them but not being able to put it into words?
[06:17:52 PM] Forgottenlord: still doesn't beat hers
[06:18:43 PM] Medevo: engg week was last week wasnt it?
[06:18:47 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: it's this week
[06:19:00 PM] Medevo: this is mang week for us, engg week was last week
[06:19:08 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: tonights the wrapup party at o'byrnes...i think i better hide in a corner at home
[06:19:14 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: it's psych week next week...
[06:19:21 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: last week was anti-freeze
[06:22:50 PM] Medevo: why hide. shouldn't you go out and meet people, have a good time, and expirence the culture?
[06:23:08 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: because it is a culture that i refuse to become a part of
[06:23:59 PM] Medevo: why?
[06:24:07 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: ask scott
[06:24:42 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and because it's my choice
[06:25:45 PM] Medevo: your in engineering as a engineering student so that you can get a engineering degree and work as a professional engineer, you cant escape engineering and the attached culture
[06:25:52 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: yes i can
[06:26:09 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: there is no reason to believe that just because everyone else has been lead into it like sheep that i can't
[06:26:23 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i have a friend, a 4th year SoftE, at Waterloo, who escaped it
[06:26:25 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: heck
[06:26:36 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: she was able to completely avoid it
[06:26:48 PM] Medevo: does that person ever leave their room?
[06:26:53 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: yes
[06:26:53 PM] Forgottenlord: the culture as a whole - perhaps - but she can detach herself from the part of the culture she dislikes - the component that shows itself most clearly from stuff like Engg week
[06:27:26 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: Shannon doesn't drink, go to parties, or screws around at engg week, but she has friends, has a life, and is happy
[06:27:38 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: and she's very polite
[06:27:51 PM] Forgottenlord: to say that the culture is to be a part of Engg week, to be proud of being an Engineer and let everyone know it, is a falacious definition of Engineering culture
[06:28:01 PM] Forgottenlord: it is a mere component - one side of a many sided die
[06:28:05 PM] Medevo: think of it like this, right now I am working with some other guys on this assignment, I doubt I could do it myself, engineering isnt something that is realisticly done alone, and the friends you make and work with in engineering become your professional assocates
[06:28:26 PM] Forgottenlord: what makes you think she does it alone?
[06:28:38 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: hey like i said, Shannon has friends and she's on her 4th work term right now
[06:29:03 PM] Forgottenlord: meeting people isn't solely done at parties
[06:29:27 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i've met other engineers at the church group i go to
[06:29:29 PM] Forgottenlord: I've only been to two "parties" - and both of them I went to with friends I already knew - very few engineers, met no one new
[06:29:39 PM] Forgottenlord: but I know MANY engineers - and they don't come from parties
[06:30:12 PM] Forgottenlord: they were people I noticed in labs and lectures, people that have had interesting ideas and I got involved in extensive conversations with or just plain lab partners
[06:30:14 PM] Medevo: your missing out on the rich experience of becoming a engineer by doing that, and just becoming a antisocialite
[06:30:22 PM] Forgottenlord: hardly
[06:30:29 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: concurred with scott
[06:30:44 PM] Medevo: part of your degree is learning how to interact with these people who you are going to work with for the rest of your life
[06:31:05 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: but it does not REQUIRE a familiarity with crazy student party culture
[06:31:20 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: did my parents go to parties when they were at nursing school? no
[06:31:23 PM] Forgottenlord: I know people in various clubs, the former ESS president, catholics, friends from HS, people who party, people who have been started working on their own research projects, all sorts of things
[06:31:32 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: did they meet each other and become married?
[06:32:46 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: you get to know the nicest and best people in a setting where you are discussing serious topics such as academics, not shallow talk and outrageous behaviour like at parties
[06:33:07 PM] Medevo: you clearly have never been to a engineering party
[06:33:16 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i don't need to
[06:34:02 PM] Medevo: "regulars" have " outrageous behaviour like at parties" but engineers are a lot more intellegent about how they party
[06:34:07 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: not true
[06:34:30 PM] Medevo: you cant say anything against my statement, you said you have never been too one
[06:34:35 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: do you think i haven't been to country crusade, or heard about what people were doing at the, for example, MecE halloween party?
[06:34:46 PM] Forgottenlord: Sasha - you are equating a lack of partying with being anti-social - they are not even kinda the same. To be anti-social means you don't meet people. I've never met a single person at a party but that doesn't mean I'm anti-social
[06:35:01 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: what i have seen at CCXV is testament to everything i do not believe in
[06:35:02 PM] Medevo: the country crusade is a event which the whole point is TO DRINK
[06:35:06 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: NOT TRUE!
[06:35:10 PM] Medevo: yes TRUE
[06:35:11 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: it's also a party!
[06:35:20 PM] Forgottenlord: actually - Sasha got that one right
[06:35:28 PM] Medevo: its got a nickname, DRINK A SMALL TOWN DRY
[06:35:50 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: it's also got a nickname "the biggest party of the year"
[06:35:57 PM] Medevo: here its called DASTARD, drink a small town in alberta really dry
[06:36:02 PM] Forgottenlord: the component that is a party is the concept that you can't have fun without drinking - but outside that it is difficult to call it party
[06:36:14 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: well, for them, anyway
[06:36:20 PM] Forgottenlord: yes
[06:36:33 PM] Forgottenlord: but that's a completely different argument for another time
[06:37:01 PM] Medevo: ok, [kyrasantae] you cant seem to keep focus on the dissussion, you have changed the topic like 6 times
[06:37:15 PM] Forgottenlord: Sasha - to claim that you can ONLY meet people at parties and can ONLY learn how to work with them at parties is a falacy made by those who have never tried the other ways
[06:37:25 PM] Forgottenlord: go to clubs, just talk to people sitting beside you in class - that will do wonders
[06:37:30 PM] Forgottenlord: that's how I met most of my study group
[06:37:32 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: the topic at hand was the culture, the partying is part of the culture you speak of
[06:37:33 PM] Medevo: I never said only
[06:37:35 PM] Forgottenlord: just looking around and saying hi
[06:37:38 PM] Medevo: I said its a component
[06:37:51 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: yes then what are the other components? you haven't ever mentioned them
[06:38:03 PM] Forgottenlord: not while I've been involved in this convo
[06:38:06 PM] Medevo: class, working on homework, playing foosbal
[06:38:10 PM] Forgottenlord: I've said it 3 times or something
[06:38:22 PM] Forgottenlord: lol
[06:38:42 PM] Forgottenlord: participation, just hanging out - whether dry or drunk
[06:38:58 PM] Forgottenlord: discussing issues that have absolutely nothing to do with your degree
[06:39:11 PM] Forgottenlord: that's what's great about my study group - we talk about EVERYTHING
[06:39:36 PM] Forgottenlord: only one of us even goes to any parties - and his parties are normally Frat parties - not Engineering ones
[06:40:41 PM] Forgottenlord: I know a few Engineers who party regularly from people I've met in Lister - and yes they're a different breed but when it comes to working, I work with them in the same way I would work with my friends that don't party
[06:41:29 PM] Forgottenlord: and we discuss and become friends in different ways then we become friends with those who's lives and preferences on the components of Engineering culture match ourselves
[06:41:57 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: *sigh
[06:42:10 PM] Forgottenlord: to shun them completely is foolish - but [kyrasantae] doesn't do that :she may hold less value in her relationship with them - but she doesn't shun them)
[06:42:20 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: well....:P
[06:42:28 PM] Forgottenlord: do you talk to Lee?
[06:42:36 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: some of them i forgive but it's a very long process
[06:42:39 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: not casually
[06:42:47 PM] Forgottenlord: but you don't shun him
[06:43:01 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: yeah it's not like i don't talk to him, but there are others i don't talk ot
[06:43:02 PM] Forgottenlord: you can still cooperate with him - you can still work with him
[06:43:21 PM] Forgottenlord: and when you get out into the world, that's what's important
[06:46:14 PM] Forgottenlord: if you can work with them, once you get out into the professional world, that's all you need. If you can find your friends and those who will welcome your opinions, it is enough to be able to live and thrive in this world




Quote of the Day (according to Forgottenlord):
Me and "Cosine" (who always uses one of his friend's names as his MSN nick, and is the only bit of comic relief I have from a drunk person, until he starts to rub the fact that he likes drinking in my face):

[07:19:51 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i thought you were going to the wrapup party
[07:23:57 PM] Derek Neufeld: well not THIS early
[07:23:58 PM] Derek Neufeld: why aren't you there yet
[07:24:38 PM] Tuuli Mustasydän: i have a funny feeling you don't want to see your friends get hurt

Comments

Yay

[(Anonymous)]

I thought he didn't say components - or even suggest that drinking was only a small portion of Engineering culture. I was going to call BS, but I didn't realize at the time that there was so little else in the convo (I wondered if he had said it when it was just you two talking). Better, it's his second last line and he never did get back to us :P.

-Forgottenlord

That's why Sasha seemed a bit out of character

[forgottenlord.livejournal.com]

It seems that it was Sasha's study group that was arguing with us, not just Sasha alone. We were debating with 3 people at once.